Hey, So Science Doesn´t Know All the Answers, But God?

Dou Rasmus 5 hours ago  @Green Peacemst  - You ignore that there is an evolutionary continuum of science and its association with religion, in this case Christianity. As science has filled in more and more of the god-of-the-gaps mythology, the standing of science makes a far stronger argument for natural laws causation and process. I do not understand your hewing to the term "scientism." I do not know of any scientist with wide respect that believes science is going to know all the answers. There is a far greater reality in that science continues to distill what is unknown rather than what is known. It is any assertion that a god is a progenitor of natural causation that becomes increasingly absurd. Look, man. You´ve got your head buried pretty deep in science, and are pretty mixed up about what´s going on. None of the theists in these debates is really making anti-science arguments, although abiogenesis still gets some of them. "A far greater reality that science continues to distill what is unknown...."? Man, where is Al Gore, FDR, Eleanor, MLK, and maybe Barack Obama, when you need them? You can´t refer to anything that reflects the limits of science, or even the actual philosophical nature of science. Mathematician AN Whitehead put a few things pretty well, and the assumption of ORDER and LAWFUL REGULARITIES is one of them, and he even couldn´t avoid implying the foundations of Christian community and value assumptions. All your comments are based on scientism, despite your hollow protests about ad populum personal experience. Truthfully, these debates are inadequately structured to expose science´s delusions sufficiently. Your kind just hold up a test tube and say, “Hey, do you see a god here? I don´t see any god here.” as if that is an argument. George Lemaitre discovered the Big Bang foundations as a Catholic physicist, while the spiritual mathematical physicist and non-Christian Einstein got an earful about the problem of the infinite past from Lemaitre. Then lapsed protestant Hubble couldn´t even grasp the implications of his (rediscovered) red-shift confirmation for some time. God, the transcendent Creator, plays a number of roles in helping a thinker see straight. The initial comment here by JP included the following paraphrase, “Has science disproved a creator? Not anymore than science can disprove any fantasy” and “any God that would condone things like slavery or inequality or misogyny  at any time for any people is abhorrent.” You try to talk to me about science eliminating god of the gap mythology stuff, and ignore scientism anti-theist junk like that? You clearly ignore it because you don´t have much clue. JP tries to assert against a creator by one version of reductionism, demonstrating no knowledge of the philosophical logical necessity arguments, nor historical sociology arguments, etc of creator arguments, but using gradeschool bigotry by equating it with fantasy. That´s not god of the gaps mythology, although you seem caught in your own part of that loop. As far as your concerned, it does not compute. That´s not a literate discussion, nor scientific, nor reality-based. The same goes for JP´s OT reductionism. “God condoned slavery and that´s abhorrent!” That´s not a literate argument, historically, social scientifically, or otherwise. It´s non-literate, or illiterate, bigotry. Fritjof Capra, the physicist turned Systems Theorist for sustainability, and mathematician turned philosopher of metaphysics and religion AN Whitehead´s early stuff are stuff that an ambitious soul would seek out, for starters. Then William James´ Varieties of Religious Experience is a standard classic. Rodney Stark´s series starting with the Rise of Christianity then is a good modern sociological take on things. Then the rise of Christian Universities and modern science as a modern Christian philosophical practice, as in James Hannam´s work. Perhaps by then psychological dynamics will be intelligible to you, like Freud´s talk therapy, abreaction (emotional reconnection), and catharsis not least of all. The quick sound bite comeback to “Has science disproved a Creator?” is “Just like science hasn´t disproved love or social capital or team spirit, and anything that is fundamentally emergent and relational. To “God condoned slavery, etc,” the comeback is, “God created the Big Bang and natural lawful physical laws that led up to slavery, etc, and despite shamanic healers, humans were ruled by calculations that invented slavery, basically universally. The most successful path to ending slavery was in the Judeo-Christian line, in Jesus´ legacy of loving integrity carried in its complex modernization process that includes a mix of new levels of social demands, integrity, hypocrisy, and worse. The hypocrisy and worse is caused by the bio-psychological impulses that are humanity´s animal nature that are in need of psychospiritual management. When Islam expanded after Mohammed died and invaded Europe in 711, Europe´s Charles Martel didn´t ignore the threat. He gave the church lands early on for certain reasons, then took them back later to professionalize his soldiers. He was no pagan, nor submissive to the church. He was committed to the vision of God through Jesus Christ enough to have clarity of intelligence in the face of the Muslims motivated by God through Mohammed. You and the scientists you know of didn´t study in Madrasa schools, but in Christian-derived Universities. Yet, Charles Martel wasn´t college educated. Nor was slavery ended merely by a college grad. In the UK-British Empire, college grad Thomas Clarkson sought out the Quakers to anchor his effort to end slavery. They had been started by George Fox who had little formal education, and had developed uncanny Christian integrity as a denomination, including opposition to slavery. With their support, Clarkson became a pioneering investigative researcher and organizer. Scientists like Darwin may have supported the abolitionists, but they were hardly the leaders. Nor had they founded the Quakers, nor determined the Christian conversion experiences of people like Parliament´s W Wilberforce, Sr and their complex contribution. Wilberforce was inspired in his conversion by the minister P Doddridge´s book, The ...Progress of Religion in the Soul, not Galileo, Newton, or Descartes. So, just like they didn´t use British cannons back in Moses´ day, they had slaves like everybody else, and God was related to at their level. The top 10 Commandments and Hebrew-Jewish prophets have a rich experience as Jesus´ heritage, no less. While scientists did not lead the anti-slavery movement, they had been an earlier byproduct of Christian spiritual practice that led to the Universities. Jesus´ loving Commandments for Moses and God are still the basis for the “ethics” that haunt modern science. All of that is at least Historical Sociology, and related to Transpersonal Psychology, which you can begin to approach with the kinds of scholarly resources I´ve suggested. So, as much as you go on and on about all your scientism talking point words, it is not the “god in the gap mythology” you should be parroting só much in response to someone like me. It is learning from me that your kind swims in a Gap in the God mythology.