Sunday, July 17, 2022

Profit-based Western Religion Began with the Crusades? Tell that to Chimpanzees and the National Association of Manufacturers

Profit based Western religion began with the Crusades, organized by the Popes, as armies looted and took over trading routes to the East. These concepts came to the Americas. - An Indigenous Peoples' History of the United States, 3 Comments Mark Rego Monteiro Yeah, that´s pretty much wrong. By the "Crusades," the meme seems to mean "profit-based Christianity," to get one semantic issue closer to empirical reality. If "religion" involving conquest is the sociological and historical subject, it already begs the question. Islam began by conquering with the sword as it expanded out West to Africa and even into Europe. It also expanded East through India out to Indonesia and part of China, I believe, more or less, for starters. "Christianity," meaning actually Western European Roman church Christianity, meanwhile, had developed into a complex societal structure with a centralized political monarch in the Holy Roman Empire, among other components. "Profit-based Christianity", itself is a modern kind of category, so that trying to project that very category back so far into the past is questionable. The category is economic activity and its relation to different kinds of players in historical context. Charlemagne united politically Christian Europe around 800 AD, for one thing, after the fall of the Western Roman Empire in 476 AD. Charles Martel, no less, had effectively defended against the Islamic invasion around 732 AD. Historical issues are interesting, but are more related to the preludes to the pivotal shift in Western culture as Christians developed monastic schools into Universities that Christianized philosophy with empiricism, pivotally with Thomas Aquinas at the U of Paris in the 1250s. The results of modern philosophy with empiricism underlie the historical development of modern science, shareholder business economics, and constitutional democracy, for starters. It seems to have preliminary beginnings in the Medici-era of Italian bankers related to the Silk Road trade. That was a foundation for Portugal then Spain, with Portugal able to seek the source of slave and gold markets in Africa first after 1400. As Luther´s inspired Reformation freed various areas, no less, Great Britain´s own qualities were able to leapfrog and build on Portugal´s accomplishment by taking over India in the British East India Co´s capacities. That gives far more historical context. The modern "profit-based religion" reflects those channels, but also requires identifying the merchant, soldier, and political identity in all social groups and societies that human beings are responsible for in the first place. It´s not the Christian religion that´s on trial. It´s spiritual practice adequate to tame the human meta-animal that has been given the fruits of Jesus´ legacy in University-based education that needs to be ascertained. Reply 15h John H Clemson Mark Rego Monteiro Love the part about monasteries. We are taught how they saved the knowledge of the ages before, but don't look at how they would have morphed it to fit their ideas. Fortunately there were other "storage units" that saved knowledge from the Library of Alexandria, for example. ------ The idea at the top is from the first 4 minutes of an audio book sample: An Indigenous Peoples' History of the United States, so it was aimed after the European powers that colonized, I am curious about the rest of the book. Reply 14hEdited Mark Rego Monteiro John H Clemson With regards to monasteries, there are a number of complex issues to be discussed. However, the assertion that they "morphed the knowledge of the ages to fit their ideas," your view is simply resorting to the assumption that "knowledge of the ages" is, or was, as you or somebody might speculate, pre-Christian in its highest form. However, the Roman imperial Gen Sulla destroyed Plato´s and Aristotle´s schools in the 140s BC/E, and the Library at Alexandria was actually severely damaged at first by Julius Caesar, I recall. Cassiodorus in the 500s AD played a major role in developing ancient classics for monastic study. Plutarch´s Christian humanism involved Italian monasteries, I recall. It was in fact specifically Christians who turned monastic schools into modern Universities, and the pivotal role of the monk Thomas Aquinas in laying the groundwork for modern philosophy with empiricism. The Greeks didn´t do experiments for similar reasons they didn´t go far with democracy. They didn´t want to do manual labor. The question of sustaining knowledge in "storage units" has its own complexities, that includes the even less coherent experience of the Muslims. Their scholars weren´t supported by the Islamic religious clerics, for one thing. "Anti-Christian" ideology is itself an ideological position. I´ve found that to value indigenous people, for their good and bad sides, I´ve had to give special attention to the meaning of "Christianity." While identifying Jesus´ special role and loving integrity standard with spiritual teachings is crucial, so is the importance of high integrity spiritual Christians and the way they resurge through history. What that reflects is not "Christianity´s" waywardness, but human bio-psychosocial tendencies to indulge in things like power, privilege, and pleasure, and in different areas like merchant, soldier, and politician roles. Or church institutions. By the same token, Indigenous scholars trying to trash and scapegoat Christianity are showing their own indulgence in the abuse of the privilege of knowledge. Instead of recognizing indigenous people´s own expression of human diversity, even before having access to the benefits of the fruits of Jesus´ legacy in scholarship. In context, then, there is also the violence and enslavement among all tribes and civilization attempts. for example China´s Hongwu Emperor´s purges, India´s pre-Buddhist King Ashoka´s shock at violent conquest, Islamic violent conquest, Africa´s conflicts and enslavement as in O Equiano´s case, and American indigenous cannibalism around M Nóbrega´s case, raid and capture in Native Am Attakullakulla´s case, and Sacagawea, no less. I can appreciate how resentment can motivate such forays into scholarships that involve scapegoating. They are valuable attempts for learning scholarship. There are reasons, however, for understanding the philosophical criteria for truth and the difference with ideology. Biology grounds us in what is a kind of "original sin" of sorts, as our close cousin Eastern African chimpanzees also commit the massacres of neighboring groups at their own level. That is not typical of normal animals, but appears linked to their, and then our, newly evolved levels of cognitive intelligence. In a way, we are kinds of meta-animals. In North America, and now the whole world, Indigenous people, like African Americans, are among the conquered people of the colonial past who are developing a new modern identity in globalized civilization with FD Roosevelt´s vision and legacy UN and human rights, and sustainability. I like to keep clear that Jesus´ legacy of loving integrity for Moses and God created the context of University-based "fruits" meaning powerful cultural tools disconnected from the monastic, or even more clearly and officially religious, spiritual discipline of their origins. That´s where the context of the resurgence of integrity in Jesus´ standard in the form of George Fox et al´s Quaker Friends is so important, and their protesting slavery. The UN, its human rights declaration, conventions, and openness to Civil Society is an important step forward that has helped empower many movements. The establishment of the PFIP, Permanent Forum for Indigenous Peoples after 2000 is also worth noting.

Tuesday, July 12, 2022

What Is The Standing of Economics, Religion, and the Biology of Greed in Western European Christian Conquests, Anyway?

Original Post by JHC: We don't have to go back that far in history. Although it is more painful to look at our recent transgressions than those of centuries ago! Remember when the US used religion as an excuse to take land from Native-Americans and kill thousands through relocation and in Indian Schools. The Doctrine of Discovery! "Dakota filmmaker Sheldon Wolfchild’s compelling documentary is premised on Pagans in the Promised Land: Decoding the Doctrine of Christian Discovery, a book based on two decades of research by Shawnee, Lenape scholar Steven T. Newcomb. The film tells the story of how little known Vatican documents of the fifteenth century resulted in a tragic global momentum of domination and dehumanization. This led to law systems in the United States and Canada and elsewhere in the world, that are still being used against Original Nations and Peoples to this day. The film concludes with traditional teachings developed over thousands of years that provide a much needed alternative for humans and the ecological systems of Mother Earth at this time." Mark Rego Monteiro The framing of this issue is not the most progressive, but a progressive approach captive to scapegoating religion and ignoring the role of economic profiteers. The Vatican? The Reformation was sparked in 1520 as part of how University-based education has created the context not just of "freedom", but one that has itself been abused. "Freedom" needs "responsibility," and the problem of authority has long shifted from religion to profiteering businesspeople. In fact, Columbus wasn´t primarily motivated by Christianity. He was no monk. He was an adventurer representing merchant desires, soldiers, and politicians. The Reformation then served to unleash the merchants et al of Holland and the UK, among others, but with the UK´s interesting pivotal roles in spawning spiritual-religious innovators whose success suggests the role of individuals in community in resurgent integrity. Trying to scapegoat religion could probably misdirect attention away from the need for lifestyle, consumer, and economic activism in food co-op stores, credit unions, and Civil Society like the PIRGs, Sierra Club, and Greenpeace, along with spiritual practice to empower insight and reform in Christianity itself not least of all. Reply 3h John H Clemson I understand your point. Certainly economics was the major factor, but killing proples who were considered inferior made it all easier. Greed is the reason , but its negative connotations could be soothed with religious justification. It is not so much happening that way today, but the patters have been engraved in our western culture. Reply 2h Mark Rego Monteiro John H Clemson I want to acknowledge your ability to at least identify psychosocial factors like economics and weigh that with your concern about religion. I thought through a few things below. I tried to summarize it in the next three paragraphs, but left the rest in case you´re interested. I suppose my point can be more pointedly made by indicating that by "religious justification", you´re actually pointing out how merchants et al operate. Merchants were in charge in charge, not monks, and those merchants established authority in key ways in relation to religious authorities. Monks were not dictating the primary objectives of the expedition leaders. Merchants and soldiers were using the skills being advanced by monastic schools turned into Universities, and increasingly secularized after Descartes´ mind-body split and Grotius´ natural law. And in doing so, merchants et al were Western European humans first, not Christians. That´s where the meaning of my own major as "human behavioral biology" becomes important to emphasize. Actual "western patterns" reflect more general human patterns, except for the difference that European merchants et al took the advantage of post-monastic University-based learning into the larger world where might made right. Islam serves one angle of contrast, no less, since their religion didn´t stand for scholarship and it already mostly disappeared after the Mongol Siege of Baghdad in 1258. However, all cultures can have examples cited for contexts and the role of violence: China´s Hongwu Emperor, India´s King Ashoka´s conversion, Gandhi´s renaming the Untouchable caste, Africa´s Olaudah Equiano´s chief-father´s slaves, Jesuit M Nóbrega´s ordained colleague was cannibalized by South American natives, Sacagawea´s own capture and sale as wife. Trying to blame western European humans using Christianity itself presumes the standard of human rights fairness that has only become possible as a response to the power that was used by merchants et al in the first place. It is that conquest that made a demonstration of what is actually University-based educational power in things like sci-tech and organization. It is the "special sauce" of that educational power that is based on monastic Christian spiritual practice. I think this makes much of my argument, but I tried to give a summary up to here. The rest follows if you´re interested. Calling Europeans by their nominal religion, Christianity, is to confuse the human and social power relations involved. Attempting to condemn "religion", is to mistake human behavior. My own major in college at a University was biological anthropology, aka human behavioral biology. Mark Rego Monteiro The framing of this issue is not the most progressive, but a progressive approach captive to scapegoating religion and ignoring the role of economic profiteers. The Vatican? The Reformation was sparked in 1520 as part of how University-based education has created the context not just of "freedom", but one that has itself been abused. "Freedom" needs "responsibility," and the problem of authority has long shifted from religion to profiteering businesspeople. In fact, Columbus wasn´t primarily motivated by Christianity. He was no monk. He was an adventurer representing merchant desires, soldiers, and politicians. The Reformation then served to unleash the merchants et al of Holland and the UK, among others, but with the UK´s interesting pivotal roles in spawning spiritual-religious innovators whose success suggests the role of individuals in community in resurgent integrity. Trying to scapegoat religion could probably misdirect attention away from the need for lifestyle, consumer, and economic activism in food co-op stores, credit unions, and Civil Society like the PIRGs, Sierra Club, and Greenpeace, along with spiritual practice to empower insight and reform in Christianity itself not least of all. Reply 3h John H Clemson I understand your point. Certainly economics was the major factor, but killing proples who were considered inferior made it all easier. Greed is the reason , but its negative connotations could be soothed with religious justification. It is not so much happening that way today, but the patters have been engraved in our western culture. Reply 2h Mark Rego Monteiro John H Clemson I want to acknowledge your ability to at least identify psychosocial factors like economics and weigh that with your concern about religion. I thought through a few things below. I tried to summarize it in the next three paragraphs, but left the rest in case you´re interested. I suppose my point can be more pointedly made by indicating that by "religious justification", you´re actually pointing out how merchants et al operate. Merchants were in charge in charge, not monks, and those merchants established authority in key ways in relation to religious authorities. Monks were not dictating the primary objectives of the expedition leaders. Merchants and soldiers were using the skills being advanced by monastic schools turned into Universities, and increasingly secularized after Descartes´ mind-body split and Grotius´ natural law. And in doing so, merchants et al were Western European humans first, not Christians. That´s where the meaning of my own major as "human behavioral biology" becomes important to emphasize. Actual "western patterns" reflect more general human patterns, except for the difference that European merchants et al took the advantage of post-monastic University-based learning into the larger world where might made right. Islam serves one angle of contrast, no less, since their religion didn´t stand for scholarship and it already mostly disappeared after the Mongol Siege of Baghdad in 1258. However, all cultures can have examples cited for contexts and the role of violence: China´s Hongwu Emperor, India´s King Ashoka´s conversion, Gandhi´s renaming the Untouchable caste, Africa´s Olaudah Equiano´s chief-father´s slaves, Jesuit M Nóbrega´s ordained colleague was cannibalized by South American natives, Sacagawea´s own capture and sale as wife. Trying to blame western European humans using Christianity itself presumes the standard of human rights fairness that has only become possible as a response to the power that was used by merchants et al in the first place. It is that conquest that made a demonstration of what is actually University-based educational power in things like sci-tech and organization. It is the "special sauce" of that educational power that is based on monastic Christian spiritual practice. I think this makes much of my argument, but I tried to give a summary up to here. The rest follows if you´re interested. Calling Europeans by their nominal religion, Christianity, is to confuse the human and social power relations involved. Attempting to condemn "religion", is to mistake human behavior. My own major in college at a University was biological anthropology, aka human behavioral biology. Biology gets at the issue that terms like "Economics, religion, etc" are themselves abstractions, and really normally used with the fallacy of misplaced concreteness, aka reification. I remember around sophomore year college having thoughts about motivation, and finding one psychologists ideas or the other on the topic that struck me as incredibly important. The very purpose of spiritual-religious practice on my interfaith spiritual path intensified as I took a Kung Fu class and visited my first Buddhist temple. Jesus, it turns out, very much insisted on spiritual practice. No less, Universities emerged from the monastic system, which itself wasn´t originally initiated by "mastermind planning." Anthony of the Desert was a pioneering ascetic at 18 years old in 270 AD whose story is one of proto-psychotherapy in a fully spiritual theist mode. In Jesus´ legacy. Although a thing of its time, of course. Anthony wrestled with the demon of loneliness, not the feeling and emotional awareness, per se. And so, Anthony´s psychosocial practice and account became a pioneering work, even before Augustine of Hippo´s Confessions around the 400s AD. The details of Christian spiritual-religious history are actually key to grasping both the role of spiritual practice, as also in Buddhism, yoga, tai chi, Sufi whirling, shamanism, and so on. And that becomes key when you say, "the patterns ...engraved in western culture", but still mean to scapegoat religion. What I might shift to is to acknowledge the challenge of unraveling the complexity of the psychosocial and cultural components, and identifying the source of evil in human bio-psychosocial tendencies, or what I think is more than animal, but a cognitive social animal, a meta-animal. The US can be singled out for its leading role in the US-led profiteering model that corporate businesspeople use. Another angle involves interpreting any "blame" and reasoning in terms of empirical/objective categories and related cause-effects. Thus, it is also important to grasp the violence and enslavement of the full range of other cultures, from China to India to Islam to African tribes to Native American tribes. Blaming religion, ignoring the primary role of merchants, soldiers, and politicians, and the subordinate role of the Christian church is to confuse the solution. Blaming religion tends to reflect the premise that "secularist scientism" is the solution, because, for one, spirituality itself hasn´t even been adequately recognized for the powerful significance it has. Actual "western patterns" reflect more general human patterns, except for the difference that European merchants et al took the advantage of post-monastic University-based learning into the larger world where might made right. Islam serves one angle of contrast, no less, since their religion didn´t stand for scholarship and it already mostly disappeared after the Mongol Siege of Baghdad in 1258. However, all cultures can have examples cited for contexts and the role of violence: China´s Hongwu Emperor, India´s King Ashoka´s conversion, Gandhi´s renaming the Untouchable caste, Africa´s Olaudah Equiano´s chief-father´s slaves, Jesuit M Nóbrega´s ordained colleague was cannibalized by South American natives, Sacagawea´s own capture and sale as wife. Modern egalitarianism reflects a corresponding corrective "special sauce" in Jesus´ legacy that goes with the immense power unleashed by post-monastic University education. B de las Casas was a monastic trained figure who began to oppose slavery in Latin America. George Fox followed the Puritan movement in Great Britain to found the Quaker Friends who sparked University activity that led to the pioneering abolition social movement campaign.