Monday, April 12, 2021

Easter, Christianity, and "the gods": Did Humans Make the gods? If In Part, How Much?

Avatar greenpeaceRdale1844coop • 8 days ago Interesting enough, although "Easter as a pagan goddess is an 'unattainable' assertion" is a little embarrassing mistake. Actually, the guy missed the interesting fact that Easter eggs are apparently a Christian innovation, not pagan. Mesopotamian Christians are credited with it. Germans are credited with the bunny. https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...
Avatar Bish@ greenpeaceRdale1844coop • 5 days ago nature created the eggs, well before any god even existed.. greenpeaceRdale1844coop Bis • 4 days ago • edited "before any god even existed" Your assumption there is scientific materialism, aka scientism. "Science" is a term, meanwhile, that artificially dissociates the practice from its philosophical nature by making it seem a technical matter. Whatever seems routine in "science" is part of scientific philosophy, the empirical study of physical reality. Thus, the History of " Science" reveals that Christians actually defied ancient Greek assumptions as part of their living in Christianity´s own new cultural forms based on Jesus´ legacy of loving integrity and an omnipotent God. Modern scientific and moral philosophy emerged with empirical methodologies as Christian tools, as did mechanicism and secularism. In evaluating the full range of knowledge, epistemology includes both knowledge domains and phenomena domains. Scientific laws, for example, represent human models of lawful regularities in phenomena. Within those realms, epistemology identifies how phenomena are interconnected, with physics leading to chemistry, which leads to biology, which leads to human psychology, anthropology, and so on. Those sequences involve systems and emergentism. All of the knowledge domain systems are part of philosophy´s epistemological coherence, including alternative methodologies like contemplation. In looking at physics, its explanations of Cosmology reveal a limit of scientific philosophy. Evidence suggests that spacetime and matter-energy had a beginning and that the Universe is not eternal in the past. Thus, the Universe´s beginning requires a cause of some kind, and one of a different Order of Explanation. That Cause of the Universe is outside this Universe´s spacetime, matter-energy, and so is timeless, spaceless, and immaterial. yet of tremendous power. Without time, the Cause showed agency because it was not a mechanical process "timed" to go off. "Agency" is a quality we know as humans because of human minds. The Causal Entity of the Universe has no physical brain, and so is an immaterial mind. That´s where "nature" comes from, and human developmental cultures that mixed perception of the God Entity, natural forces, and god-labels, from shamans to temple priests in settlements. Jesus played a key role in his tradition, and ancient Greek philosophy provided a major resource for Jesus´ legacy of loving integrity in God´s love. • Edit • Reply • Share › Avatar Bishadi greenpeaceRdale1844coop • 4 days ago You are typing on a computer because of materialism. No god enabled the computer. Just as you came from a single celled living system; sperm/egg. No god created you. Your parents did the wild thing. "Those sequences involve systems and emergentism" Evolving. Growing, developing.......................... Life grows, develops and is emergent. Jesus just confirmed that following the rules (commandments) was the best model until the unveiling. Which he did not complete. Love requires honesty. • Reply • Share › Avatar greenpeaceRdale1844coop Bishadi • 4 days ago "You are typing on a computer because of materialism. No god enabled the computer." You´re a little unclear about the difference between Homo habilis and Homo sapiens. Shamans are shown to have existed as early as 40,000 BCE, reflecting the psychosocial therapeutic role they play in a cognitively advanced primate advancing in symbolic tool use through language, right and left brain style. Shamanic relationship to the transcendental has especially shown healing abilities and undoubtedly, reconciling wisdom, extrapolating back from the likes of Cyrus the Great or FDR. Chimpanzees, incidentally, have been found to kill chimps from neighboring groups, given the sufficient advantages even at their level of sociality and cognition. Caine killing his brother Abel is a profound archetype and empirical psychosocial condition that afflicts human-type mammalian materialistic interaction. Greek society, for its brilliant grounding of scientific and moral philosophical culture, failed to adopt such culture more systematically and spiked and crashed illustratively in Alexander the Great. Ego reared its ugly head for the Greeks. And they splintered, and then were conquered by the Romans, who did the same. Except, as Julius Casesar became the pioneering tyrant with populist appeal, his more distant nephew or the like, Augustus Octavian, revenged Caesar´s assassination and was ruling when Jesus was born. Jesus´ life, mission, and message left 2 Commandments for Moses´ 10 and God and accessories that led to Jesus´ legacy of loving integrity. That legacy had monastic schools that Christians turned into Universities that were able to remake ancient Greek philosophy plus into modern science and other empirically informed philosophical disciplines. People unable to sustain mutually supportive social relations cannot sustain scientific and empirical culture. That´s where your distorted perception that neglects to acknowledge human psychosocial qualities, and spiritual-religious experience in Jesus´ legacy of loving integrity, is stuck. In fact, sustainability and human rights indicators show us empirically that modernity is on track to disasters. Hell in a handbasket, as they say. With secular extremist ideology nurturing feelings of anger diverted in confusion, mixed up rebellion, and selfish ambition in people, materialism is showing its true colors. God enabled the computer, primarily through Jesus, with touches of ancient Greek, Islamic, and other channels. As for natural biology, you clearly were unable to follow the logical reasoning I presented to you about biology´s place in things. Even with Jesus´ unprecedented legacy, human bio-psychosocial tendencies to indulgence clearly make human sexual behavior vulnerable to destabilizing tendencies. Gandhi gave up sex at 35 because it is a powerful distraction and requires psychosocial and spiritual discipline to maintain balance. Barack Obama has shown as much responsible balance as any admirable public figure, and more, while the crude figure of the sexual adventurer and profiteer tRump has dumped his soul in anti-social values. Jesus can be said to have potentialized key aspects of salvation, but his legacy of loving integrity has led to University-based society with modern empirical philosophy that can educate anyone and everyone for sustainability, spirituality, and human rights if promoted persistently. Indeed, love does require honesty. And diligent effort to pursue and achieve that honesty. • Edit • Reply • Share › Avatar Bishadi greenpeaceRdale1844coop • 4 days ago people created the computers. The engineers are not gods. • Reply • Share › Avatar greenpeaceRdale1844coop Bishadi • 3 days ago Yes. In the relevant frame of reference to computers and engineers, they can be described in material terms to a degree. "Gods" as you use it, is already retreating into refuting an egotistical notion. Engineers are not gods, and depend on a rich spiritual-religious context that informs their activity, in Jesus´ legacy of loving integrity in University-based society. • Edit • Reply • Share › Avatar Bishadi greenpeaceRdale1844coop • 3 days ago Your body is material. Writing is material. As i use it, gods are man-made (man created) entities. Engineers do not depend on "rich spiritual-religious context ". That claim is based on "an egotistical notion." ps... Jesus was not a god either! • Reply • Share › − Avatar greenpeaceRdale1844coop Bishadi • 3 days ago • edited Yes, two more material aspects for you! Many aspects of God the Creator and Providential Supplier are expressed in human beings. The original relationship to theism was through shamans, who are material. Yet, the appearance of the Loewenmensch in a cave from 40,000 years ago shows a figure that is not itself natural, a Lion-man. The healing in conjunction with shamans still occurs as it does in spiritual-religious contexts. One recent report concerned a fatal condition in an American who traveled down to South America for shamanic treatment that cured him. Engineers don´t exist because they were born yesterday. Your lens is inadequate, and virtually illiterate. No Isaac Newton, no engineers today. No Universities, no Isaac Newton. No monk Thomas of Aquinas, no Universities. No monk Bishop Raymond the Benedictine monk and his Toledo Translation School, no University science. No Jesus, no monks. My previous comments have already made related arguments. Your denial of engineers spiritual-religious context is denialism and potentially illiterate, simply in the context of this dialogue. Your simplistic attempt to throw back a description of you verges on ad hom, but you demonstrate yourself as not competent in the necessary literacy. Jesus certainly was a man. The question of his nature is more complex. Given that you have the freedom to question or deny, and even verbally negate his divinity is all part of the rich spiritual-religious context that now makes you not competent nor literate in such dialogue. While he taught spiritual practice involving seeking "the Kingdom of Heaven," he also referred back to the prophetic tradition that is his rich heritage, including Moses and all of the recorded testimonies that defy materialist notions. Materialism has observed in scientific philosophical study that chimps will organize, attack, and kill neighboring chimps. Greek culture that developed philosophy in ancient times was unable to sustain itself as the exploitation of any cultural strengths led to egotistical and wanton acts of violence that limited Greek development. Greek science itself receded to libraries that nurtured odd geniuses into Rome´s conquest of Greek areas. Aristotle´s own notions of a First Cause were rejected by him because he thought the Universe was eternal. Aristotle´s ideas were relegated to documents and neoplatonism. That, too, was repressed as Christianity became a foundational belief for the Eastern Emperor who suppressed surviving neoplatonic paganism. Jesus´ appearance is described in the New Testament as involving a number of spiritual-religious experiences, for both his parents and uncle/aunt parents of John the Baptist. Jesus´ message of loving Commandments for Moses and God defy materialistic limitations. He demonstrated healing and taught accessory principles of love, all in regard to seeking the Kingdom of Heaven and in relation to God´s love over judgment. Psychology has come to recognize the healing power of loving behavior, in Jesus´ legacy of loving integrity, from Freud to Piaget to Harlow, et al. Psychologists have also recognized the existence of a relationship to Higher Powers, including Jung´s synchronicity and Higher Self taken from Hinduism. Also in Jesus´ legacy, nevertheless. From the persistence of prayer and meditation related activities to the non-materialist activity of Christian spiritual-religious love as the driving force and logic behind the emergence of Universities transformed from Christian monastic schools to Universities, to the establishment of the United Nations based on human rights and revealing sustainability, the organizing principle of God´s love has defied human materialistic corruption. FDR´s efforts against the Stock Market crash corruption of the rich and then the power mad efforts of Hitler´s Nazis allied at first with Stalin´s Soviet Russia, and technologically powerful Tojo Japan itself represents how FDR defied the rich and selfish tendencies in the US. He credited Christian service values and announced the importance of religion, also refuting materialistic analyses. In terms of logic, scientific empirical philosophy is only part of momentous Christian University-based developments. Psychology, history, and so on have all emerged, presumably an obvious, but radical point in your virtual functional illiteracy. It was thus that Christians have been able to take Aristotle´s First Cause argument, along with Islamic scholarship, to reason philosophically where scientific philosophy fails. I described it above already, so here I´ll cite a rich metaphorical version. The existence of supermarkets doesn´t mean that farms are unnecessary. Material reality is not sufficient and logically requires a cause from a higher order of reality, all of which operates according to emergentism. As to Jesus´ defining himself as the Son of God and in other related ways, you have already demonstrated inadequate literacy for me to even indulge in more here. In your unwavering incomprehension, this is certainly more for others and myself than you. You can find the meaning of love, of course. Jesus is not the means by which I first began learning about the principle. Just the crucial pivot and more. • Edit • Reply • Share › Avatar Bishadi greenpeaceRdale1844coop • 3 days ago Yes, man created a whole bunch of aspects for the variety of gods. Mars, zeus, even a hairy kristna that is claimed to have 16,000 wives. With words mankind even created libraries. "As to Jesus´ defining himself as the Son of God and in other related ways, you have already demonstrated inadequate literacy for me to even indulge in more here." Each soul born is a child of mother nature (god itself). Since i have read the dialogue, i am well aware of many metaphor of the bible and many theologies. What is sad, is too many have been led to believe that mankind is not capable of learning, creating or even unconditional LOVE. But i know better! • Reply • Share › Avatar greenpeaceRdale1844coop Bishadi • 2 days ago "Yes, man created a whole bunch of aspects for the variety of gods." Modern psychology and comparative religion provide empirical tools that can provide highly precise analysis of the issues involved. Most people don´t, and few scholars get that precise. The basic issue goes deeper, as you try to approach with your statement below, " Each soul born is a child of mother nature (god itself)." Your comments thus reflect a level of disorganization in your perception, naturally enough. However, that is the benefit of acknowledging the University system and its organization of subject disciplines that situate the different subjects. Reality is multidisciplinary in its richness of phenomena, and the knowledge domains that form epistemology as well, with foundations in empirical philosophy. Your statement about being a "child of mother nature" captures the importance of nature as aspects of biology, environmentalism, and outdoor recreation, etc. Also as part of the creation with its own spiritual dynamics. "God itself," however, is yet another level, the absolute and ultimate that has gained its highest recognition in teachings related to love, the centerpiece of Jesus´ 2 Commandments for Moses and God. Protection and healing from disease are an important benefit, and recognizing the value of nature itself under threat another. The condition of humankind consists of the problem and the solution, related to the abuse of power through ignorance, greed, and hatred as the Buddha nicely phrased it. Jesus´ legacy of loving integrity in University-based society has ample expressions that encourage learning and creating. If you know better than any negative assumption, then you would benefit by knowing that numerous others also have known better, from Jesus to George Fox, John Locke, and more. • Edit • Reply • Share › Avatar Bishadi greenpeaceRdale1844coop • 16 hours ago Man created them religions even the words to describe the variety of psychosis. Man created the gods and even your spiritual dynamics of the most high. • Reply • Share › Avatar greenpeaceRdale1844coop Bishadi • 20 minutes ago • edited So, I misinterpreted in your statement, "Each soul born is a child of mother nature (god itself)" by my own semantic inclinations. You equate "mother nature" with "god itself." Your use of concepts is not paltry, but not directed by an intellectual discipline that acknowledges the larger scholarly community that has developed them and the University-based group that provides a strong basis for comparing and contrasting, developing empirical foundations, and understanding levels of explanation. "Psychosis" is a pathologized term referring to a psychological state. "States of consciousness" is a more standard term that adequately addresses spiritual-religious experience involving non-materialistic, non-natural, and supernatural/transcendental/transpersonal insights and perceptions. Your assertions are unempirical, nor do you show any awareness of the standards of empiricism. The biological anthropologist Eliot Chapple formulated a comprehensive behavioral psychosocial system that identifies the learning and conditioning involved in generating all the various cultural symbolic systems, including religions. At one level, that´s a major advance that helps ground a number of perceptions. The modern expression in English, "a cross to bear" reflects Jesus´ context of suffering before execution and Resurrection, and legacy, as a general kind of example. The Buddha taught lessons that include reference to the lotus flower and its scent. An Asian island tribe used leaves of a certain tree in certain rituals, such as rites of passage, because the tree provided vines for fishing nets as their primary male livelihood. "(Humans) created the gods" thus is subject to such analytical treatment, although that is a level not widely used. Alex Wendt´s social constructivism achieves a similar level of clarity as Chapple, more recently. Sociologist GH Meade actually drew directly on Chapple. Yet, as I have indicated already that you are unwilling or unable to acknowledge, philosophical analysis of levels of explanation makes clear what Aristotle original identified as causes. "Scientific laws" represent lawful regularities in physical phenomena. Those lawful regularities operate in classical mechanics, but emerge from Quantum atomic and subatomic phenomena as a primary level of emergentism, that applies continually as phenomena have been addressed by philosophical systems into academic disciplines. Just as "scientific laws" are human philosophical contructs, the phenomena they refer to are the invisible aspect of objects and their physical behavior. Tracing physical phenomena down to the quantum level with instrumentation, scientists have identified such phenomena as the Higgs boson and Higgs field, with one nickname the "God particle" because of its hypothesized, and apparently empirically-based, foundational character. Yet, empiricism itself is actually empirical philosophy, as science is scientific and empirical philosophy. Philosophical analysis of the levels of explanation continues by reflection, and can identify the origin of modern philosophy in Christians identifying ancient Greek limiting assumptions, like Aristotle´s view that objects don´t travel in curved motion, just straight lines. Christians identify God as the transcendent Creator and omnipotent, and in their scholarly religious networks had the confidence and clarity to recognize Aristotle´s error and correct it. For one, levels of explanation beyond biology lead to psychology, anthropology, and sociology, etc. All that involves emergent phenomena with new levels of analysis requiring new concepts and observing new processes. If founded on biology, new possibilities unlike biology have been observed. Force, wealth, speech, and sex can be abused and have been, whether in humans eating other humans in cannibalism, the capture of slaves for sex and wealth, and the use of lies for self-serving accusations and false convictions. The Code of Hammurabi, referring to transcendental aspects of God, is an early and well-known legal system from Babylon before 1,000 BC. Moses´ top 10 Commandments for Abraham and God emerged more or less contemporaneously. Moses´ spiritual-religious experience with a burning bush is well known. His descripion is ultimately limited in its quality of elevating Moses as leader. Jewish prophetic experience becomes recorded and confirms experiences by prophets who do not expect to be contacted by a transcendental God, and are reluctant not megalomaniacal. It is thus that coherence, continuity, and consistency form a larger emergent logic over historical development that fortifies the narrative component quality and compensates for its isolated nature. The Hammurabi Code, meanwhile, remained a purely archeological discovery, its name lost in the mists of time, whatever its lasting contributions. By contrast. Again, Aristotle´s First Cause argument provides a modern basis in WL Craig´s Cosmological Argument for God that situates materialistic science´s elements of knowledge in its philosophical framework of metaphysical cause. As one scholar has nicely observed in metaphor, "Just because we have supermarkets, it doesn´t mean we don´t need to experience or understand farms, agriculture, or gardens and ecology and biology.

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