Demons and Dark Angels

Ja Morg Does anyone really believe in demons and dark Angels? I don't.

Jak Urs I don't believe a word of it. It's an allegory and probably borrowed from Babylonian mythology - both anegls and demons. Even the resurrection predates Christianity in Eqyptian mythology, as well as the concept of a virgin birth..

Mk Reg Monte @Jck Urs Concepts and reality are important to distinguish, and that has helped me reconcile my interest in knowledge and spirituality. The methodology of the spiritual-religious phenomenal and knowledge domain itself is important to validate. Aristotle made a fine First Cause argument, but was left with an Unmoved Mover and the unexamined and unreconciled secret of the Orphic Mysteries, and the Delphic Oracle for that matter. "Modern academia," secularly put, tells us with clarity that tribal Shamans predate settlements, and supported by such developments as the Historical Sociology of Religion (e.g. the rise of G Fox´s Quuakers), Therapeutic Psychology, and Psychosomatic Med, debunk rationalist reductionism, not least of all through sociocultural psychosomatic healing. Coherent study of "mythology" itself is founded on, part of, and only artificially viewed disconnected from its ambient sociocultural multlayered Christian Petri Dish (nutritive context). There would be no Hawking, Dawkins, or Darwin without Anthony of the Desert, monastic schools becoming the U of Paris, Thomas of Aquinas, theistic DesCartes, Newton, and Locke, for starters. The plot thickens as we contrast the legacy of an articulate healer in the Jewish prophetic tradition, and the "myths."

Jac Urs I think it's all from the land of make-believe. The words of Jesus are sufficent, and if they were not everything supernatural attributed to him would be dismessed as just the legend of another ancient prophet: Virgin birth, resurrection, angels. demons, etc. are pointless speculations - and even more so when they emerge from a people who left lands where they were captives and who held those beliefs prior to them (i.e. the Jews who left Babylon and Eqypt). Joesph Campbell suggests there are greater truths these myths are trying to explain. Perhaps, but I don't think the answer is a supernatural one.

Jo Elizabeth James Morgan if you met my mother of law you would. 🤣 Haha

· Mar Reg Mont@ Jac Urs I agree that Jesus´ logic alone has spectacular significance, as T Jefferson also focused much on. I also agree with your assessment of the weight of the supernatural attributions as far as you go. However, you have invested yourself firmly in some unexamined assumptions that are technically logical fallacies that can be summed up as anachronistic and reductionistic. The spiritual-religious knowledge and phenomena domain I´m talking about is something Campbell stopped short of with psychology. K Armstrong goes a step beyond Campbell in her historical approach and ultimately theistically founded, spiritually linked "mythos" and its "logos" distinction. I´m not aware that she ever draws on Jung, Grof, or Michael Harner for the Transpersonal to flesh out her terms. Otherwise, I´d say Fritjof Capra´s comprehensive search, especially Therapeutic Psychology and Psychosomatic Medicine, is an excellent bet to build a sound philosophically rational foundation beyond the narrow assumptions of rationalism. No supernatural? As WL Craig and others point out, what exactly accounts for first the Apostles, and then their inspired follower martyrs sticking to their stories that led to their deaths in unprecedented fashion? We know in modern psychology and theology that they had free will, and that before the crucifixion and Resurrection Judas, Peter, and Thomas were wavering to various degrees. Aren´t modern cases and theories of cult members and mass suicide applicable? That Paul and his road to Damascus "conversion" story, with Ananias all tidily written up to heal him. What a yarn. Now, I have my doubts and alternative suspicions about the Virgin Birth and Jesus in India in combination with an ascension. My logic, however, emerges from Psychology, Sociology, Biophysics, and so on. The Jewish people didn´t take over Babylon. Babylon died out on its own merits. Neither did Jesus merely pontificate. I suggest also reflecting on Aristotle´s basic First Cause argument. Between that "crazy storyteller" Paul, those non-Kool Aid drinking, far and wide ranging martyr Apostles and their proteges, and Thomas of Aquinas´ Uncaused Cause in Jesus´ name, "nothing supernatural" in the name of reductionist antipathetic mythologization exegesis doesn´t quite do justice.

Gran Stale They are as real as ones imagination and nothing more.

Mar Reg Montei @ Gran Stale If you mean God, in the first place, I suggest you do a little more study of Comparative Religion, Transpersonal Psychology, and Metaphysical Philosophy. Karen Armstrong´s work is a little short on interdisciplinary reasoning, but with my suggested palette, her work gets more important than ever. "Imagination" is inadequate, while emotional and spiritual intelligence is more like it. That extremist materialist reductionism stuff makes people as blind as robots. You´re not a robot. I got my undergrad in Bio Anthro studying the evolutionary interface of symbolic behavior. As the New Atheists go, for example, and I can slice, dice, and pull Richard Dawkins from behind his Oz curtain like eating ice cream and cake. The old saw, "Muscles for brains" is also good, although here it´s like, "Equations, labs, and hi-tech toys for brains." The philosophical term is "fallacy." Rationalist scholarship and scientific education has had psychological consequences that have made visionary experiences like Paul´s conversion scarce in the mainstream. However, Anthony of the Desert´s decades-long ascetic search for the inner clarity of "the Kingdom of Heaven" back in 270 AD led him to various moments of catharsis and then theosis/divinization that has been illuminated since Freud and Jung by Therapeutic and Transpersonal Psychology. Anthony finally had a dream that revealed the location of another ascetic Paul of Thebes. That´s "spooky" ; ) The practical implications then involve Anthony´s courage, wisdom, and catalyzing reputation not least of all for the founding of monasteries. Combine Aristotle´s First Cause Metaphysics with this Transpersonal Historical Sociology and you´ll be getting beyond the "equations and toys for brains" syndrome. Paul of Tarsus will thank you for not calling him some "nutty epileptic." As for angels, the work on NDE has gotten some academic attention at U Virginia in Ian Stevenson´s legacy at their Dept of Percep Studies. Well worth a look. Verifiable Info obtained while dead. Quantum mechanics, eat your heart out.